00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:06
Speaker 3
but in order to give, you have to learn and you have to be current and relevant with what you're learning.

00:00:05:06 - 00:00:09:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, let's fight about the idea. Let's not fight each other.

00:00:09:05 - 00:00:11:22
Speaker 1
Did it change the culture? Is it better? Is worse? It's a

00:00:11:22 - 00:00:14:01
Speaker 3
let's take a look at this from a leadership perspective.

00:00:14:01 - 00:00:21:13
Unknown
Welcome to start with a win where we unpack franchising, leadership and business growth. Let's go.

00:00:21:15 - 00:00:37:06
Speaker 1
And coming to you from start with a win headquarters at Area 15 Ventures, it's Adam Contos. We're going to jump right into me being interviewed by James Wiggins and Keith Robinson from the Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered podcast. Let's get right into it.

00:00:37:06 - 00:01:04:12
Speaker 1
Welcome to the podcast. Long overdue. I know. I am very excited to have you here today. It's a slow news day in residential real estate, right? As usual, there's always some drama lama running through the room, knocking tables over somewhere. I'm sure we'll talk about that, but, look, man, we're excited. I wanted to chat with you here about your background.

00:01:04:12 - 00:01:29:05
Speaker 1
I think the viewers and listeners who don't know you will be really intrigued to hear how you got to the place that you've been in your career. Your amazing podcast, a lot of the consulting and the business coaching you're doing. But I guess let's just start there and give them for those that don't know you give them a little bit of background because I just wanted to preface you started as a sheriff's officer running SWAT, correct?

00:01:29:05 - 00:01:30:04
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:01:30:04 - 00:01:35:14
Speaker 1
And then ended up being the CEO of one of the largest real estate brands in the world. That's a.

00:01:35:14 - 00:01:37:07
Speaker 2
Big that's a big.

00:01:37:07 - 00:01:40:19
Speaker 1
Shift. So let's just give us the lowdown on that.

00:01:40:21 - 00:01:48:16
Speaker 3
I usually say the good part was I didn't get shot at anymore in the real estate space, but I don't know if you can say that anymore. So.

00:01:48:18 - 00:01:52:16
Speaker 1
So target rich environment recently.

00:01:52:18 - 00:01:53:17
Speaker 2
Got it really good.

00:01:53:19 - 00:02:14:16
Speaker 3
So anyhow, first of all, thank you for having me on. Course, you and Keith it's longtime listener first time caller here. So this is a fun podcast to be on because I mean, Frank, I love the unfiltered part, but a little bit about my history. So of course I did my first career like most people in this industry, have a first career.

00:02:14:17 - 00:02:34:13
Speaker 3
My first career was in law enforcement. I got in when I was pretty young, 21 years old. I got commissioned after I was in the Marines for a little bit. And I thank you. And I kind of grew up in law enforcement. I worked undercover for a couple of years. I actually learned sales by buying drugs undercover.

00:02:34:15 - 00:02:42:10
Speaker 2
So just to all the listeners, we do not recommend that as sales training. Right? Just for anyone who's listening, that is an approach.

00:02:42:11 - 00:02:49:16
Speaker 3
So I had a I actually had a sales program called Narc Marketing that I taught at, but.

00:02:49:18 - 00:02:54:07
Speaker 1
It turned out to be the best podcast already right out of the gate.

00:02:54:09 - 00:02:57:10
Speaker 2
So we that book exists somewhere because I want a copy.

00:02:57:12 - 00:02:59:19
Speaker 3
No, but I should right now I need to write that one.

00:02:59:19 - 00:03:02:18
Speaker 2
Case I did right after this.

00:03:02:20 - 00:03:27:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, totally. But I'll tell you, the the DEA Undercover Narcotics school is one of the best ways to learn sales because you go out and they drop you on a street corner and they go go buy drugs and you got to you have to go find somebody that does not know who you are, you know, gain their trust and confidence, learn about their problems, and then do a life changing transaction with them.

00:03:27:11 - 00:03:29:07
Speaker 3
Does this sound a little bit like real estate to you?

00:03:29:07 - 00:03:30:22
Speaker 2
A little bit. A little bit.

00:03:31:02 - 00:03:36:11
Speaker 3
A little, little bit on the drugs? It's not like a pound a Coke or something like that we're trying to buy here.

00:03:36:13 - 00:03:37:23
Speaker 2
So.

00:03:38:01 - 00:04:03:02
Speaker 3
You know, it's it's a house. But but for crying out loud, it is about meeting new people and gaining their trust and confidence, which was life changing for me. So I worked undercover for a couple of years and I grew up in the law enforcement agency that I still have an affiliation with. I'm still a volunteer with them, but I got on a SWAT team because of my military background and because we were kicking doors every night on the narcotics unit anyway, serving search warrants.

00:04:03:04 - 00:04:27:14
Speaker 3
But ultimately I became the SWAT team commander. I became a counterterrorism instructor, homeland security instructor, right around 911, no less. So I was I was a little bit busy, but I, I also had a consulting company. I started an online business on government products and then switched that to a consulting company because in the nineties it was really difficult to sell stuff online, especially to the government.

00:04:27:16 - 00:04:44:15
Speaker 3
Still is difficult to sell to the government, but try it Back then when everybody wanted a paper check and an RFP, right? So ultimately started the consulting company. Hang on a sec. Let me get a drink here. Sorry, I've been podcasting all days.

00:04:44:17 - 00:04:45:04
Speaker 2
good.

00:04:45:05 - 00:04:48:15
Speaker 1
Good, good, good. All right, I'll join you. So.

00:04:48:17 - 00:04:51:08
Speaker 3
But. But ultimately, what are you drinking there, James?

00:04:51:10 - 00:04:52:16
Speaker 2
here we go.

00:04:52:18 - 00:04:58:17
Speaker 1
It is cambogia it's a little bit of hippie dippy, but it has a little bit alcohol in it, which is why I just slowly drink it through the day.

00:04:58:18 - 00:05:00:20
Speaker 2
There you go. Don't let me guess.

00:05:00:22 - 00:05:02:20
Speaker 3
Gary, California my friend. Yeah.

00:05:02:22 - 00:05:06:16
Speaker 1
You know, you can be judgy all you want. I like the damn shit so good.

00:05:06:18 - 00:05:10:05
Speaker 2
So good. Someone needs to know. And there.

00:05:10:05 - 00:05:28:05
Speaker 3
You go. So anyhow, I built a training course for real estate agents. How not to get killed while doing your job. It was called safer safety awareness for every realtor. And. Yeah, that took off quite a bit in the early 2000. I actually had agents come up to me and say, Thank you for that. You saved my life.

00:05:28:05 - 00:05:29:20
Speaker 3
I implemented those techniques.

00:05:30:01 - 00:05:30:22
Speaker 1
That's awesome.

00:05:30:22 - 00:05:52:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, it was very satisfying. So at that point I got a job offer to go work in the franchising consulting business for Remax. Dave Linnegar himself asked me if I would like to come work in the organization since I was working with so many people in the industry. I said, Of course I love the industry. I love the people involved.

00:05:52:08 - 00:06:15:09
Speaker 3
I like the entrepreneurial spirit. I like not getting shot at, you know, things of that nature. So so I jumped over into Remax to do franchise consulting work and worked my way up in the organization. I oversaw, you know, different regions, franchise marketing and sales, advertising, marketing and brand marketing, human resources.

00:06:15:11 - 00:06:38:18
Speaker 2
I have a leadership question that should hop right into my head. So you go from leading SWAT teams and sort of a pretty controlled command structure, right? I tell you what to do. You're going to do it. Of course, there's communication and fluidity and and all of the things you need to have an effective team, but much more hierarchical.

00:06:38:20 - 00:07:05:10
Speaker 2
I see you. Do we execute together? You transition from that to residential real estate. Where you're going in there, there is almost none. Right? Like we beg, bribe, cajole, it's Chris, you know, it's donuts and and, and Bloody Marys to get him to come to the office meeting or whatever. How was that transition for you? Like, how did well, what was it like?

00:07:05:10 - 00:07:10:21
Speaker 2
And then making some assumptions about what it was like. But if it's like, I think it might have been, How did you deal with that?

00:07:10:23 - 00:07:20:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, in the early 2000s, I'll say one of my first bigger meetings there was almost a fistfight. So I thought I was back at home.

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:29:10
Speaker 1
So you and Keith are going to get along really well because he wants to do everything trial by combat. And I'm like, we can do that from an H.R. perspective, although I think it would be useful sometimes.

00:07:29:10 - 00:07:34:00
Speaker 2
So I mean, yeah, we may not always get the right decision, but it is simpler.

00:07:34:02 - 00:07:36:23
Speaker 3
And it's a lot of fun. And you hug you hug it out after the fight.

00:07:36:23 - 00:07:39:16
Speaker 2
That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

00:07:39:18 - 00:07:59:10
Speaker 3
It it was a little bit challenging going from that environment and frankly, where you you know, when you're done with a call, you're generally done with a call. If it's a SWAT call and you're packing up your gear and going home, it's because it's over. It's not because it's going to continue tomorrow or for four or five days or until the inspection or anything like that.

00:07:59:12 - 00:08:30:02
Speaker 3
So definitely a big difference. But more than anything, it's an awareness of the people. So, you know, the leadership in law enforcement is understanding people, understanding their challenges, combining those things together and in helping them solve their problems. It's the same thing in real estate. So that's how I looked at it, is I just need to I need to connect with these people because after so many fights as a cop, you're done fighting and you want to connect and you want to find a common ground with people.

00:08:30:04 - 00:08:41:02
Speaker 3
So at some point you're like, All right, let's let's all get along and solve some of the world's problems together. So it worked out well when I came to business. It's a chess game of emotions and relationships.

00:08:41:07 - 00:08:42:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah.

00:08:42:01 - 00:09:00:13
Speaker 3
So that's kind of how I looked at it. And that's really still how it is today with a a massive amount of of trust and confidence and things like that built into it. But ultimately it is not I would say it's not going against the grain. It is relatively parallel.

00:09:00:19 - 00:09:02:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah.

00:09:02:11 - 00:09:21:09
Speaker 1
All right. Let's do a few rapid fires because I want to hear your answers to these, because we've talked about drugs, We've talked about SWAT, we've talked about fights. We've and we've talked about real estate shortly, But we'll get more into that. Okay. Rapid fires, 30 seconds or less. Just to give the viewers and listeners a little about who you are.

00:09:21:09 - 00:09:24:20
Speaker 1
So if you were a superhero, who would it be and why?

00:09:24:22 - 00:09:26:18
Speaker 3
without a doubt, Captain America.

00:09:26:20 - 00:09:27:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:09:27:11 - 00:09:29:16
Speaker 1
See, I was going to guess that, by the way. So.

00:09:29:21 - 00:09:31:13
Speaker 3
Okay, So have you ever.

00:09:31:13 - 00:09:34:07
Speaker 1
Dressed up as Captain America, by the way?

00:09:34:09 - 00:09:35:21
Speaker 2
Have you ever done it today?

00:09:35:23 - 00:09:48:12
Speaker 3
You know you never will say this. No, I have never dressed up as Captain America. I was driving down the road one time down the highway, and Captain America pulled up next to me on his motorcycle with his shield on his back one day. And I'm.

00:09:48:12 - 00:09:50:01
Speaker 2
Like, Hey.

00:09:50:03 - 00:09:54:19
Speaker 3
Look at that guy. I honked and gave him a thumbs up and stuff. Yeah, that guy down there and.

00:09:54:21 - 00:10:00:09
Speaker 2
Whoever that guy is has a great life, right? Like he. totally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was going to say dead.

00:10:00:15 - 00:10:07:04
Speaker 3
I was going to say Deadpool originally, but he's not a superhero. He's kind of the antihero.

00:10:07:06 - 00:10:15:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, but he's so good, though. There's very few of those on this podcast. So like you, we could go super villain we're fine with. Yeah, okay. He is he.

00:10:15:12 - 00:10:18:17
Speaker 3
Is friends with Captain America and Spider-Man. No, you know that's true.

00:10:18:20 - 00:10:23:09
Speaker 2
That's true. And Wolborough, he's hero adjacent. Yeah. All right.

00:10:23:15 - 00:10:25:03
Speaker 1
So what's the fan.

00:10:25:09 - 00:10:31:06
Speaker 2
Favorite book or podcast asked? Well, we usually say this year, but in the last 12 months for why.

00:10:31:08 - 00:10:33:17
Speaker 3
I'm going to go this year. Keith So, you know.

00:10:33:19 - 00:10:34:23
Speaker 2
Getting this honor down here.

00:10:34:23 - 00:10:57:17
Speaker 3
But I just finished this one. This is called Essentialism by Greg McEwan, the disciplined pursuit of less. Okay. And just so get this book, I know a lot of people would be like a tomcat is or something like that which James clear love him. It's a great book. I've read it like half a dozen times and all the habit books.

00:10:57:19 - 00:11:03:01
Speaker 3
This is kind of the next phase of that. On how to say no to shit you shouldn't be doing.

00:11:03:21 - 00:11:26:14
Speaker 1
So it's Keith. You are not allowed you to read that because he's talking about nine delegate. Everything you're not doing right now are not doing it already. Do they know? It's my point. So. All right, last one. Last one. If you could have lunch with one person, current or historical, who would it be and why?

00:11:26:16 - 00:11:31:16
Speaker 3
I'm going to go with somebody current because I want to know what their crystal ball says. I'm going to say Elon Musk.

00:11:31:22 - 00:11:41:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's a good one. A good one. That's a good one. Buckle up. Well, yeah, that goes either. Yeah, yeah.

00:11:41:10 - 00:11:54:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, he either has insight into what's going on in the future somehow or he's going to go disrupt it anyway. So, you know, I'd love to ask him about the current state of affairs in the residential real estate market.

00:11:54:13 - 00:12:01:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He definitely. What? He promised he would have a thought on it that most others have not Probably.

00:12:01:13 - 00:12:21:04
Speaker 1
I mean, you kind of have to. You have to like I mean, he's very out there, obviously, but you also have to look at it and go, man, this guy, is this just on a different planet like Tesla? The people wanted it to fail. Largest car manufacturer in the world. You've got Space X. I mean, he literally is Nassar.

00:12:21:06 - 00:12:32:14
Speaker 1
So, I mean, it's just incredible what the guy does and how he thinks would be a good one would be interesting, although you'd have to like really follow along because his brains operating so quickly, he doesn't get the words out.

00:12:32:16 - 00:12:34:16
Speaker 2
It's so clean.

00:12:34:18 - 00:12:36:06
Speaker 3
It's an interpreter there.

00:12:36:06 - 00:12:37:18
Speaker 2
That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for.

00:12:37:18 - 00:13:05:05
Speaker 1
Sure. All right. So let's dive into some of the main questions. So you you had the opportunity to basically be guided by one of the greatest real estate executives of our lifetime, you know, Dave Linnegar. And you were there for from 2004. So 18 years, if I'm correct that. Yeah. And seven positions starting in the franchise sales sort of consulting role.

00:13:05:05 - 00:13:29:09
Speaker 1
You mentioned all the way up to the chief executive officer of one of the largest brands in the world. Like what? Just give us like what? What was that like? Like how did you get there? Because I think so many people want to do things like that but have never achieved that kind of movement up the ranks to leading a publicly traded company that's, you know, massive.

00:13:29:09 - 00:13:43:01
Speaker 1
So it's still a little like, I don't know, just tell us, like, what did that look like, that that movement up? How did you get there? What was it like to to to be taught by Dave and just, you know, I don't know, where did where do we go with this? I just want to hear about that background.

00:13:43:03 - 00:14:01:19
Speaker 3
there's I think there are a couple of key factors here in this, one of which I would say is relationships. So, for instance, like James, you and I met several years ago at an international franchise Association meeting. Yeah, nothing to do with real estate. It was funny because I walk into this this room and there's James sitting over at this table.

00:14:01:19 - 00:14:03:09
Speaker 3
I still remember where the table was. It was.

00:14:03:09 - 00:14:04:09
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:14:04:11 - 00:14:07:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you're with you're with Dave. I remember you guys were at the bar, so.

00:14:07:13 - 00:14:08:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:14:08:06 - 00:14:33:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And it was about meeting people and connecting with them and building relationships. I don't care what business you're in. And in fact, I've probably talked to most of the CEOs in the space since I've left Remax simply to say hi. Hey, my friend. How are you doing? It's been a while. Stuff like that. And those relationships are rock solid because I was very agnostic in the space I wasn't.

00:14:33:03 - 00:14:55:21
Speaker 3
While I had opinions, I wasn't consulting with them. I was I was transparent, but caring and kind. And, you know, you don't have to be friendly, but you got to be kind. And that's what I think builds a respect. So you've got to really work on that. And this coming from somebody who has never wanted to just walk into a room and meet a whole bunch of people because remember, I didn't want anybody to know my name or what I look.

00:14:55:22 - 00:15:22:15
Speaker 3
I had a fake name, for crying out loud. So, you know, working under cover or whatever. But it was a huge part of relationships. And when you build relationships not just horizontally in an industry, but also vertically in your organization, Asian people, they they respect you because you're respecting their position, but you're not, you know, kind of kowtowing to their position.

00:15:22:21 - 00:15:48:17
Speaker 3
Your if you treat people like an equal, they will treat you like an equal nine times out of ten, unless they're harboring something internally, which is, you know, basically they feel threatened. And I don't care who you are, I'm I'm not intimidated or threatened by you. It doesn't matter to me. So, you know, I want to kind of meet you where you're at and let's do some great things together is kind of how I've always approached people.

00:15:48:19 - 00:16:05:10
Speaker 3
Secondarily, Dave gave me a piece of advice that to this day I still share with as many people as I possibly can. And that's simply this be a sponge. And by being a sponge, it doesn't mean go. Just learn a whole bunch of stuff and yes, I like to read books. Yes, Keith, I only read this this year.

00:16:05:10 - 00:16:14:13
Speaker 3
I started this year with it. You win? Yeah, I finished it with us today, the eighth. I finished it this week. So, you know, call it like the seventh yesterday.

00:16:14:16 - 00:16:16:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:16:16:03 - 00:16:33:03
Speaker 3
You know, it's a great book, by the way, and I'll go find another one tomorrow to go read. But what I'm doing is I'm giving them back. So a sponge sucks things up, it absorbs things, and then it returns things. It doesn't just absorb and keep. So a lot of people think that that leading is about just learning.

00:16:33:03 - 00:16:54:17
Speaker 3
No, leading is about giving, but in order to give, you have to learn and you have to be current and relevant with what you're learning. So really and just to kind of put a label on that's called value when you give value back. So when you take the relationship piece and the value piece and you do that in your organization consistently, that's the hard part.

00:16:54:20 - 00:17:21:10
Speaker 3
And that's really what differentiates like professional athletes from amateurs is consistency. People who are willing to continue to do those things even when everybody else is bored of them. So you have to look at yourself as a as a professional athlete that is consistently giving value and building those relationships. All three of those things together, I guess you could say that really has probably the largest impact on your growth in an organization.

00:17:21:12 - 00:17:47:15
Speaker 3
Now, I will say this, the kind of the the death of the whole thing is your attitude and your ego about it. So if you have a crappy attitude and you have an ego that is trying to protect something you'll never get anywhere, you will die a very miserable death while you're trying to defend your ego and exhibit really an attitude that drags other people down.

00:17:47:17 - 00:17:48:12
Speaker 2
I know. That's interesting.

00:17:48:17 - 00:17:51:02
Speaker 1
You know. Go, Keith, please, Please go. Go.

00:17:51:03 - 00:18:19:18
Speaker 2
How do you balance ego and defending an idea? Right? Because to me, ego is taking it personally. But there should be a high clash of ideas, right? There should be. There's the freedom in the ability to debate concepts or ideas. How do you balance that when you're working, you know, whether it's up or down, sideways in an organization, do you have like a little alarm bell that goes off?

00:18:19:18 - 00:18:33:15
Speaker 2
Like I've dipped into ego territory, like I'm digging my heels in a little more than I should, Or how do you balance that, making sure that the idea is going through the crucible but not doing it with ego attached to it?

00:18:33:17 - 00:19:06:04
Speaker 3
I think your reputation will begin to tell people that that's okay and a big lever in that is gratitude. So if you're constantly deploying gratitude because somebody is willing to give you their position instead of just sitting there and shutting up, which, you know, you see all these different meetings go on in bureaucratic organizations, things like that, where people just sit there on their hands and, you know, you've basically you're operating in an environment of learned helplessness.

00:19:06:06 - 00:19:29:23
Speaker 3
And I love that term. It's totally describes different industries right now. It describes a real estate industry right now, you know, for not not being political, but we are involved in a a function of learned helplessness because of the vertical integration within the industry itself and the rules. And people are afraid of saying something. And then once they do, everybody just attacks.

00:19:30:01 - 00:19:46:21
Speaker 3
So, you know, if you if you have that attack constantly is because there's no gratitude for that feedback that is there and the respect that comes with that. And you got to be willing to admit, hey, I don't you know, I'm coming to the table because I know I don't have the best idea. Let's find the best idea.

00:19:46:23 - 00:20:07:10
Speaker 3
And maybe let's take something from everybody. But I appreciate what everybody gives. And if you get everybody to open up and start discussing things and strip their ego away, I think a lot of that has to do with laying the framework of here's the ground rules. One, no ego. Two, you know, we're probably going to be making some of this shit up, so let's all be okay with that.

00:20:07:11 - 00:20:08:20
Speaker 2
Let's be honest about that fact.

00:20:08:20 - 00:20:14:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And here's the other thing. Don't be a sissy about it.

00:20:14:19 - 00:20:15:14
Speaker 2
Get get.

00:20:15:17 - 00:20:27:22
Speaker 3
Dirty. You know, go after it, get hungry, defend your ideas. Let's fight about them. But ultimately, we need to hug it out at the end and say, right, this was all for the best of the situation. Let's find something that works for everybody.

00:20:28:00 - 00:20:42:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, let's fight about the idea. Let's not fight each other. Right? This is about you and me. This is about us beating this idea up to refine it to its purest, best form. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:42:23 - 00:20:45:18
Speaker 3
You heard. You've heard. Play the ball, not the person.

00:20:45:22 - 00:20:47:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:47:16 - 00:20:48:12
Speaker 3
Right there.

00:20:48:14 - 00:20:49:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:49:19 - 00:21:12:16
Speaker 1
You know, it's also, I think as you were talking about it, it reminds me of this. It's just the way of I, I've personally always thought there's abundance in mindset or scarcity mindset and it's, I've seen it in so many different but actually it's probably about 98% of the industry in residential real estate is scarcity mindset. It's always a me, me, me.

00:21:12:18 - 00:21:27:19
Speaker 1
I don't want to share. I don't want to do I don't want to, I don't my competitor is going to do something. And it's it's it's interesting because I've had people ask me over the years like, why did you share all of that? That's like stuff that that we do in our company. I'm like, well, first of all, like, it all comes back around.

00:21:27:19 - 00:21:30:16
Speaker 1
Secondly, 90% of the people aren't going to do anything with it anyway.

00:21:30:18 - 00:21:32:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, 99 Like.

00:21:32:10 - 00:21:45:04
Speaker 1
Not, not to be rude about it, but like the reality is most people want implement. But I also the first point I made, which is what I was getting at and it's one of the things I've always loved about you, Adam, just like watching you over the years and listening to you speak is you're very, you're very abundance mindset.

00:21:45:04 - 00:22:14:07
Speaker 1
Like your your concept is to help people share ideas, communicate. It's a rare trait in our industry. It really is a rare trait. It's everybody's like they kind of play to that. But inside they're like, Well, I'm I don't want to give you too much because it's this, you know, this great idea. it comes back so much, just like, I don't know what the word is give I'm looking for, but just the it just comes back to you tenfold when you press reciprocity.

00:22:14:07 - 00:22:18:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like what you give, you get. What was it.

00:22:18:15 - 00:22:23:16
Speaker 3
Like. Go ahead. One of the biggest factors of influence, you know, reciprocity.

00:22:23:20 - 00:22:24:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:22:24:03 - 00:22:40:21
Speaker 3
Dr. Robert Cialdini, you know, going to give, give your best. But James, you're absolutely right. It's fascinating because people are like, well, I don't want to share this part or here will you? You know, they send you a freakin NDA, for crying out loud, half the time. And they're like, here, before I share the rest of my idea, can you sign this?

00:22:40:21 - 00:22:53:22
Speaker 3
I'm like, Look, there's no really brilliant new ideas out there. Everything's been thought of. And, you know, if you're going to tell me your spin on it, great. That's. That's fantastic. Go do something with it instead of endearing me not to.

00:22:54:00 - 00:22:56:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:56:04 - 00:23:07:08
Speaker 1
So common. What's like how many, how many agents were underneath you at the time? In, like, 20, 22, 20, 21, you guys. Remax International is 100 and something. Thousand 200.

00:23:07:09 - 00:23:08:09
Speaker 3
And 40,000.

00:23:08:09 - 00:23:09:11
Speaker 1
140,000.

00:23:09:11 - 00:23:14:07
Speaker 2
Just a tiny, little, tiny little organization. how.

00:23:14:07 - 00:23:35:02
Speaker 1
Did. And this is almost me asking personally, how did you manage that many opinions? And usually sometimes the loudest opinion in the room isn't necessarily always the the best or not the best. But I always just I always tell people, you don't know what you don't know. So people make a lot of assumptions. So how did you manage that?

00:23:35:02 - 00:23:40:17
Speaker 1
Like that many people in especially in an industry where everybody has one?

00:23:40:19 - 00:24:02:13
Speaker 3
That's a great question. And it was simply by saying one thing and that's thank you. So everybody would deliver their opinion and they all want they all want a rebuttal on their opinion. They want you to go, my gosh, that's great. Let's and as you know, everybody has like four different ways of doing the same thing. And it's their four ways and they're the best four ways.

00:24:02:15 - 00:24:27:11
Speaker 3
And they all have a new way of, you know, inventing something or doing modern real estate or I mean, come on, folks, this is not magic. It's it's relatively straightforward. Yeah. So stop trying to to make it yours and take possession and ownership of it. And and that's one of the things, as you know, there is that scarcity mindset mindset extensively in this industry.

00:24:27:11 - 00:24:37:06
Speaker 3
I mean, look at the hey, you can't you know like the MLS rules for crying out loud massive scarcity mindset there. Yeah.

00:24:37:08 - 00:24:44:14
Speaker 2
Why do you think that permeates the industry so much? Like what? What's the genesis of that? Well, you know, you.

00:24:44:14 - 00:24:48:20
Speaker 3
Go back in history, Keith, and you look at you can't see this book.

00:24:48:20 - 00:24:50:00
Speaker 2
It's secret.

00:24:50:01 - 00:24:51:01
Speaker 3
The MLS.

00:24:51:03 - 00:24:52:19
Speaker 2
The secret book.

00:24:52:21 - 00:25:15:00
Speaker 3
Or the the dot matrix printer. That was like it was in the CIA or something like that. That's pumping out the listings and I mean, for crying out loud, that's what the strength of the organization or the industry was based upon. And I think we're a very, very slow industry to evolve, and we only evolve when we have to, not when we want to.

00:25:15:02 - 00:25:37:02
Speaker 3
And that's a challenge. You should be evolving when you want to, to try and get ahead of things, because that's when you can test things instead of be forced upon things like, you know, likely what we're seeing right now, where there's going to be change forced upon this industry and everybody's going be like, this sucks. But I can tell you this, if somebody in the industry invented what that change is going to be, right?

00:25:37:05 - 00:25:41:10
Speaker 3
People would be like, That's brilliant. You're like, Come on.

00:25:41:12 - 00:25:43:05
Speaker 2
Let's get out of our.

00:25:43:05 - 00:25:58:04
Speaker 3
Own way here for a minute. But yeah, I mean, it comes down to that where I think there's there's just too much control. The reality people are going to buy and sell houses. They need someone to help them do that. So let's try and, you know, kind.

00:25:58:04 - 00:25:59:10
Speaker 1
Of innovate towards that.

00:25:59:12 - 00:26:07:20
Speaker 3
Innovation. Exactly. Instead of making it a big classified endeavor secret thing. And that's when you have scandal and all sorts other crap.

00:26:07:22 - 00:26:32:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I have had two friends, I would say their more acquaintance friends that have been in companies that have gone public. And I've always I always like asking this question just to get different perspectives. So, you know, well, I mean, we have to ask some controversial questions, right? So, you know, obviously, you know, Dave built this thing with his wife and, you know, the team from scratch and built this massive company.

00:26:32:15 - 00:26:53:18
Speaker 1
And by the way, going public is a great way to do a lot of things, raise capital, have an exit strategy. But you were there from private to public. What like what was that like? Did it change the culture? Is it better? Is worse? It's a different like, what does that mean? So I know if we have a lot of entrepreneurs, they're like, okay, we're going to raise this capital and do this stuff and they're going to go public.

00:26:53:18 - 00:27:00:01
Speaker 1
And I have a very good Wall Street friend who was like, There's pros and cons, You know the honest answer.

00:27:00:06 - 00:27:00:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:27:00:20 - 00:27:12:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like you're you're going to be on airplanes talking to the stockholders all day long and trying to sell shares, share price. And you're not focused on the business, but big payout again, what is your take on it?

00:27:12:07 - 00:27:45:02
Speaker 3
I would agree there are substantial pros and cons, everybody, and I appreciate why people do that. You know, the reason that Remax did that might be different than the reason then that other businesses do that. But a lot of times. Exactly. It's diversifying the holdings of the founders typically. Right. So, you know, when you look at it, you know, they should they should be allowed to take some chips off the table and you're either going to sell part of your company to private equity or to some other investment group, or you're going to borrow money against it to try and take some chips off the table somehow.

00:27:45:08 - 00:27:57:09
Speaker 3
But ultimately, the, you know, call it the most effective way of doing that is the IPO. So secondarily, James, if you ever call me up and go, Hey, I'm thinking about IPO and I'll be like, No.

00:27:57:09 - 00:27:59:21
Speaker 2
Don't do it. Okay.

00:27:59:22 - 00:28:01:10
Speaker 3
So but.

00:28:01:15 - 00:28:02:20
Speaker 2
It's it's.

00:28:02:23 - 00:28:29:19
Speaker 3
It's a fun thing to go through, but it's also that is now what you are you are no longer the founder CEO of a real estate franchise company. You are now, you know, like you said, answering to the shareholders and the analysts and Wall Street about everything that happens there. And it changes the the board structure. So you have to have so many independent board directors, you have to have certain committees.

00:28:29:19 - 00:28:52:13
Speaker 3
You have to follow this 40,000 page rule book called Sarbanes-Oxley and things like that, which it costs a substantial amount of money in order to have the legal backing, to have, you know, all your people internally to have everything reviewed three or four times. So I would say, is it great for an organization in certain circumstances? At certain times, yes.

00:28:52:15 - 00:29:02:00
Speaker 3
But otherwise, is it a hell of a lot of work and brain damage if, you know, kind of for the rest of the crew? Absolutely. So but the.

00:29:02:00 - 00:29:11:13
Speaker 1
Culture changes, I'm assuming, because you're you're just you're very publicly traded company. I mean, you've Yes, I remember when you were doing earnings calls and that's I'm sure I can.

00:29:11:13 - 00:29:12:20
Speaker 3
Imagine how they bring that up.

00:29:12:23 - 00:29:14:03
Speaker 2
I mean.

00:29:14:04 - 00:29:33:18
Speaker 1
I just I just of I don't know, nor would I ever wanted to. And for clarity, I'm not planning on doing this. Anybody was thinking that just that I just would just listening when you were doing them, I'm just going, my God. Like how much time you have to spend prepping every single response in like all the questions that are going to come across.

00:29:33:18 - 00:29:35:21
Speaker 1
And it just didn't sound fun.

00:29:35:22 - 00:29:37:18
Speaker 3
I'm still catching up on my sleep, by the way.

00:29:37:19 - 00:29:38:02
Speaker 1
There you.

00:29:38:02 - 00:29:38:16
Speaker 2
Go.

00:29:38:17 - 00:30:03:20
Speaker 3
But I'll tell you, you have a very talented group of people that you work with in and because you have to go out and pay extreme premiums for extremely good people in order for Wall Street to take you seriously and understand what you're talking about. And I'll tell you, I had to go get my MBA. I mentioned in, you know, many different instances and it helped me greatly.

00:30:03:22 - 00:30:24:16
Speaker 3
It wasn't the same, you know, obviously the people you learn your MBA from or you take your MBA from, a lot of times don't have that experience, but they talk about it, what they've learned, books, things like that. But ultimately, once you get on that road show and you're talking to those analysts and you're doing the quarterly earnings calls, things of that nature, it shines a light on the different part of the business atmosphere that you've never been exposed to.

00:30:24:16 - 00:30:32:01
Speaker 3
And it was really, really fun to learn that. But if you if you sat me down and said, hey, would you want to go do that again, I'll be like, No, thanks, I'm good.

00:30:32:03 - 00:30:33:11
Speaker 2
I'm good.

00:30:33:13 - 00:30:42:11
Speaker 1
The interesting I figured this knowing you, you would have said that. But that's got to be a hell of a real world experience.

00:30:42:13 - 00:30:45:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, well, I wouldn't trade it for anything, but I wouldn't do it again.

00:30:46:00 - 00:31:17:01
Speaker 2
You may not be able to answer this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So how much did it change or affect your decision making process? Meaning knowing that man, maybe I'll wait till after this quarterly earnings report and let's push that for 45 days to the other side, some decision or announcement or like how much did being publicly traded alter the way you would run the business just because of the structure of being publicly traded?

00:31:17:03 - 00:31:30:03
Speaker 3
That's a that's a great question, Keith. The and I never really did a benchmark of, okay, if we weren't versus if we are, you know, when it came to a decision. But I can assure you that it did add another dimension to the chessboard that you're playing on.

00:31:30:05 - 00:31:30:14
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:31:30:16 - 00:31:57:10
Speaker 3
So, you know, instead of a standard chess board and that the multi dimensions of the different chess pieces, it's now like you've got five or six chess boards stacked on top of each other and you can move the pieces amongst each one. So it is all about timing and considering the next move in the marketplace and things like that, it it is very difficult and I have the utmost respect for anybody that runs a public company having been there.

00:31:57:11 - 00:32:01:02
Speaker 3
But at the same time you're like, I wish I was playing checkers again.

00:32:01:04 - 00:32:01:11
Speaker 2
You know.

00:32:01:11 - 00:32:23:10
Speaker 3
As an entrepreneur, you know, just going head to head on these different things. And you're like, If I want to make a decision right now, gosh darn it, I can do that. But that being said, it's incumbent upon the executive leadership in a public company to make sure that the customer base understands your public, but also to do your very best to do what's right for the customer base.

00:32:23:10 - 00:32:31:01
Speaker 3
Because, yes, we talk about shareholder return and things like that, but happy customers increase shareholder return.

00:32:31:03 - 00:32:31:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:32:31:08 - 00:32:56:04
Speaker 3
So if you keep going back to that and you know you've got this, it's not the shareholder, it's the, you know, the stakeholder piece, I think with that focus and certainly that's what, you know, my interaction with all these different public company CEOs has reflected on them. I'm sure there are companies out there that are like shareholder, shareholder, shareholder, but ultimately you got to keep your customers happy and you do that by keeping your employees happy.

00:32:56:04 - 00:33:04:09
Speaker 3
So it's it's this multilevel of happiness for that matter. But you know, value creation, a return for everybody.

00:33:04:11 - 00:33:12:18
Speaker 1
Hey, it's Adam again. This podcast went really long, but it was really good. So we made this a two part episode. We'll catch you next time for part two